Kevin's log

KelvinAlvy wrote:

Admin wrote:If your point was valid, then why my bench press lose ~30 lbs the week after I maxed out

did you deload to max out?

nope, I very slightly lowered the intensity of my volume day leading up the max.

my bench dropped like crazy the week after my max.

there is no way I am training rested every workout. If I was, how could I be getting stronger?

[quote="Admin"]

KelvinAlvy wrote:

nope, I very slightly lowered the intensity of my volume day leading up the max.

my bench dropped like crazy the week after my max.

there is no way I am training rested every workout. If I was, how could I be getting stronger?

so you tapered and got gains? I like that strategy much more. Assuming you peaked you should obviously have a strength loss after that.... My point is that when you are training beat up/cns fatigued or whatever you call it, time off will increase your lifts. But when you are taking a significant time between workouts as your normally do, taking time off is not going to benefit you as much

[quote="KelvinAlvy"]

Admin wrote:

KelvinAlvy wrote:

nope, I very slightly lowered the intensity of my volume day leading up the max.

my bench dropped like crazy the week after my max.

there is no way I am training rested every workout. If I was, how could I be getting stronger?

so you tapered and got gains? I like that strategy much more. Assuming you peaked you should obviously have a strength loss after that.... My point is that when you are training beat up/cns fatigued or whatever you call it, time off will increase your lifts. But when you are taking a significant time between workouts as your normally do, taking time off is not going to benefit you as much

I am not following.

I squatted 3 times a week. 1 heavy / low volume day, 1 medium / medium volume day, and one light / mediumish volume day.

what are you doing thats so much more intense?

Admin wrote:

I am not following.

I squatted 3 times a week. 1 heavy / low volume day, 1 medium / medium volume day, and one light / mediumish volume day.

what are you doing thats so much more intense?

4x deadlift 1 week
3x squat 3x deadlift or variation for 4-5 weeks?
2x squat 2x deadlift or variation for 2-3 weeks? (tapering)

edit: aren't you squatting in the 3's on one of those days?

wtf man, yea you do more than me, but your recovery ability is obviously much greater.

also, you dont waste the same amount of volume on upper body as I do, which is why your bench isnt as good.

yea, i only go up 325 on the light day

Admin wrote:wtf man, yea you do more than me, but your recovery ability is obviously much greater.

also, you dont waste the same amount of volume on upper body as I do, which is why your bench isnt as good.

yea, i only go up 325 on the light day

I don't think I was ever recovered those first 4-5 weeks straight, but it is paying off now as I taper

I am not saying you should just jump into something like this but do you see my point? That type of volume/int gives a positive effect for even taking 2 days off (1 workout)

KelvinAlvy wrote:

Admin wrote:wtf man, yea you do more than me, but your recovery ability is obviously much greater.

also, you dont waste the same amount of volume on upper body as I do, which is why your bench isnt as good.

yea, i only go up 325 on the light day

I don't think I was ever recovered those first 4-5 weeks straight, but it is paying off now as I taper

I am not saying you should just jump into something like this but do you see my point? That type of volume/int gives a positive effect for even taking 2 days off (1 workout)

I see your point, but then why didnt smolov work for me 2/3 times I did it?

I see your point, but I think my recovery ability is actually so low that my training actually is above my recovery threshold.

[quote="Admin"]

I see your point, but then why didnt smolov work for me 2/3 times I did it?

the same reason it stopped working for me. It is merely a volume phase and for noob efficiency gains. The biggest two things I think one can gain off of smolov is how to "try hard" and have better squat efficiency. If I ever run the meso again I am going to just use it as a shock phase and slowly move into intensity. It is easy as phuck to hit a 3-5rm PR but not so much a 1rm PR for someone with a decent squat after the meso

I see your point, but I think my recovery ability is actually so low that my training actually is above my recovery threshold.

Well then do something about it

[quote="KelvinAlvy"]

Admin wrote:

I see your point, but then why didnt smolov work for me 2/3 times I did it?

the same reason it stopped working for me. It is merely a volume phase and for noob efficiency gains. The biggest two things I think one can gain off of smolov is how to "try hard" and have better squat efficiency. If I ever run the meso again I am going to just use it as a shock phase and slowly move into intensity. It is easy as phuck to hit a 3-5rm PR but not so much a 1rm PR for someone with a decent squat after the meso

I see your point, but I think my recovery ability is actually so low that my training actually is above my recovery threshold.

Well then do something about it

sort of agree with / 10

how do fix my work capacity?

Admin wrote:sort of agree with / 10

how do fix my work capacity?

I don't think you necessarily need to fix it, I just pointed out that is why you detrain from a deload

I built mine in high school by ridiculous overtraining and gaining 100 lbs...

KelvinAlvy wrote:

Admin wrote:sort of agree with / 10

how do fix my work capacity?

I don't think you necessarily need to fix it, I just pointed out that is why you detrain from a deload

I built mine in high school by ridiculous overtraining and gaining 100 lbs...

i dont feel detrained tbh... but idk.

I guess I will need to get extremely fat... again.

Admin wrote:

i dont feel detrained tbh... but idk.

thought your bench went down 30 lbs

I guess I will need to get extremely fat... again.

You used to be super fat?

Bulking would probably be a good whey to increase work capacity and not get weaker

KelvinAlvy wrote:

Admin wrote:

i dont feel detrained tbh... but idk.

thought your bench went down 30 lbs

I guess I will need to get extremely fat... again.

You used to be super fat?

Bulking would probably be a good whey to increase work capacity and not get weaker

my bench went down 30 lbs from still being fatigued from maxing the week before.

ya, i used to be fat, but I didnt get that strong when I got fat. I was 205 lbs, benching 235 lbs.

Admin wrote:

my bench went down 30 lbs from still being fatigued from maxing the week before.

you were fatigued for a week from a bench max?

ya, i used to be fat, but I didnt get that strong when I got fat. I was 205 lbs, benching 235 lbs.

weird... when was this

KelvinAlvy wrote:

Admin wrote:

my bench went down 30 lbs from still being fatigued from maxing the week before.

you were fatigued for a week from a bench max?

ya, i used to be fat, but I didnt get that strong when I got fat. I was 205 lbs, benching 235 lbs.

weird... when was this

its possible I overtrained beginning the minute I maxed the bench press, and thats why my squat days were not good.

its also possible that my bench was overtrained, but at the same time, other motor patterns were not overtrained, idk, its weird.,

it was all the way back in my sophmore year of high school.

give me a deadlift/squat routine for someone who cant deadlift more than 85% of 1RM twice.

never wrote a squat program that included deadlifts, so I am confuse. Include some high rep deadlifts because I wont be able to do a lot of volume otherwise

what are your goals

how long would the program be

do you just want squats/deads

will you be bulking

KelvinAlvy wrote:what are your goals

how long would the program be

do you just want squats/deads

will you be bulking

my goal is get a stronger squat and deadlift.

however long you want it to be

I have my bench programming figured out, but you can include bench programming in there too, and if I like it, i might try it.

I am gonna be cutting for the next 2-3 weeks, I will bulk for the rest of the time.

I don't really have a gauge on what you can/cant recover from I am just going to write you something similar to what I do but with less frequency

Day 1 Competition Squat, Deadlift rotation 1, Weighted Ab work, Upper Back
Day 2 off
Day 3 off
Day 4 off
Day 5 Competition Squat, Deadlift rotation 2, Weighted ab work, Upper Back
Day 6 off
Day 7 off

Rotation #1 to help lockout and overload: RDL and Rack pull
Rotation #2 to work speed off the floor: Deficit Deadlift, Sumo Deadlift, and Competition Deadlift

Start with volume on the squats, intensity on the deadlifts
Mid way go int vol/int on squats, vol on deadlifts (which is nothing more than 10 reps)
End it with ramping and going for PRs, got to go by feel here

An example would be something like
Squats
Week 1 - 3x5 410x5 420x5 410x5
Week 2 - 4x4 420x4 430 2x4 420x4
Week 3 - 5x3 415x3 430x3 440x3 430x3 415x3
Week 4 - 3x3 425x3 450x3 425x3
Week 5 - 3x2 430x2 460x2 430x2
Week 6 - Day 1 2x3 (easy day something like 435 2x3), Day 5 cherry pick a RM PR
Week 7 - Day 1 2x3 (same as before), Day 5 Get a legit Pr
Week 8 - Day 1 2x3 (Same as before, but drop the dead), take what you feel is necessary then max

Deadlift Rotation you don't need to PR on these, but if you can cherry pick some/you feel recovered go ahead
Week 1 - 1-3rm
Week 2 - 3-6 rm
Week 3 - 3x2
Week 4 - 4x3
Week 5 - potentially drop these for a week if you need to
Week 6 - Snag cheap PRs
Week 7 - Snag cheap PRs
Week 8 - probably take it off

I don't want you to take this exactly, but I think that something along these lines would be good

I cant tell if I am just being lazy, but those squat numbers look really hard....

I also find it interesting that you switch your focus in the middle of the cycle from the top of the lift to the bottom of the lift. Why not just train the weakest part of your lift constantly?

For example, if I get the bar off the floor, I am never gonna fail. Whats the point of rack pulls then? Especially when I rack pull 100 lbs more than I can deadlift.

Do you think maybe I should do extremely deficit deadlifts, and then work my way up to normal deadlifts. I also am considering starting all my deadlifts from the top, as positioning is no longer an issue. But that might just cripple me in the long term

I really think you should let me help you out with bench programming, I seem to have a much better hold on bench programming than you, whereas you seem to have me in terms squat programming.

Admin wrote:I cant tell if I am just being lazy, but those squat numbers look really hard....

It should be hard, but you don't even go near PRs for all of the volume section

I also find it interesting that you switch your focus in the middle of the cycle from the top of the lift to the bottom of the lift. Why not just train the weakest part of your lift constantly?

Are you referring to the way I do it in my own training, or how I laid it out for you?If you actually noticed that in my training that was pretty good observation . I laid it out so you will be rotating deadlifts one day with a focus on the top portion, one day focusing on the bottom

For example, if I get the bar off the floor, I am never gonna fail. Whats the point of rack pulls then? Especially when I rack pull 100 lbs more than I can deadlift.

The reason you suck off the floor is because you start in a horrible position, and once the position corrects itself (through a shit ton of wasted energy) you rape it. It is not that you are weak from the floor, you are just put in a compromised position.

I think the rack pulls will help you with squat stability and are a nice way to take a break from pulling off the floor.

Do you think maybe I should do extremely deficit deadlifts, and then work my way up to normal deadlifts. I also am considering starting all my deadlifts from the top, as positioning is no longer an issue. But that might just cripple me in the long term

I would start with a small deficit to be safe, I would be scared for your spinal cord if you went anything more than 2 plates. Starting from the top is up to you, I like RDLs but that much time under tension would be too much for me

I really think you should let me help you out with bench programming, I seem to have a much better hold on bench programming than you, whereas you seem to have me in terms squat programming.

I would be willing to talk about it after this upcoming meet. My biggest problem isn't getting stronger at pressing, it's not getting injured. So yes my programming/lack of self control sucks and is ruining my bench. We will talk after the meet

KelvinAlvy wrote:

Admin wrote:I cant tell if I am just being lazy, but those squat numbers look really hard....

It should be hard, but you don't even go near PRs for all of the volume section

I also find it interesting that you switch your focus in the middle of the cycle from the top of the lift to the bottom of the lift. Why not just train the weakest part of your lift constantly?

Are you referring to the way I do it in my own training, or how I laid it out for you?If you actually noticed that in my training that was pretty good observation . I laid it out so you will be rotating deadlifts one day with a focus on the top portion, one day focusing on the bottom

For example, if I get the bar off the floor, I am never gonna fail. Whats the point of rack pulls then? Especially when I rack pull 100 lbs more than I can deadlift.

The reason you suck off the floor is because you start in a horrible position, and once the position corrects itself (through a shit ton of wasted energy) you rape it. It is not that you are weak from the floor, you are just put in a compromised position.

I think the rack pulls will help you with squat stability and are a nice way to take a break from pulling off the floor.

Do you think maybe I should do extremely deficit deadlifts, and then work my way up to normal deadlifts. I also am considering starting all my deadlifts from the top, as positioning is no longer an issue. But that might just cripple me in the long term

I would start with a small deficit to be safe, I would be scared for your spinal cord if you went anything more than 2 plates. Starting from the top is up to you, I like RDLs but that much time under tension would be too much for me

I really think you should let me help you out with bench programming, I seem to have a much better hold on bench programming than you, whereas you seem to have me in terms squat programming.

I would be willing to talk about it after this upcoming meet. My biggest problem isn't getting stronger at pressing, it's not getting injured. So yes my programming/lack of self control sucks and is ruining my bench. We will talk after the meet

I think a lot of reason I dislike heavy squats is because they hurt my glute/hamstring. That injury that I got almost 2 years ago never went away. I wonder if that "injury" could actually be a form issue.

I do see that you dont stick to a single weakness, and I think its a bad approach tbh. I dont understand why you would ever train something thats not a weakness to same degree that would train a weakness. Its clear that you suck at the top of the lift, so I dont know why you even bother with deficits.

Even if thats the true reason my deadlift sucks, and its pure positioning, there is no way that I could deadlift 650 lbs with a good position. Its still safe to assume that the bottom is my obvious weakness, and always will be.

Maybe I could do deadlifts twice a week, and then do trap bar deadlifts another time.

I think I am going to start my workouts with transitional endings too. I feel like maybe adding transitions is better than just shocking your body right away, and maybe the russians were on to something there. I am gonna lower the weight slowly after each top set and big exercises.

Also, I noticed something I do when I bench that makes me a better bencher sometimes. I didnt even realize thats what it is was until I read it in supertraining. When I am having a great bench groove, I always contract the antagonist (triceps) before I start the set, this prevents golgi tendon inhibition.

Admin wrote:
I think a lot of reason I dislike heavy squats is because they hurt my glute/hamstring. That injury that I got almost 2 years ago never went away. I wonder if that "injury" could actually be a form issue.

I really have no idea what you should do about that then.

I do see that you dont stick to a single weakness, and I think its a bad approach tbh. I dont understand why you would ever train something thats not a weakness to same degree that would train a weakness. Its clear that you suck at the top of the lift, so I dont know why you even bother with deficits.

Enough power and momentum off the floor can carry me through my lockout. By training deficits I am much more sport specific and I am hoping it can help me with peaking my comp deadlift. As far as avoiding a single weakness, you cannot necessarily fix a portion of the lift by just doing half of it. My slow down at the top might have a lot to do with muscular fatigue lately

Even if thats the true reason my deadlift sucks, and its pure positioning, there is no way that I could deadlift 650 lbs with a good position. Its still safe to assume that the bottom is my obvious weakness, and always will be.

well i am not saying you get 100 lbs out of better positioning, but it would be the fastest way to add lbs to your deadlift. Training the bottom of the deadlift might get you to 585 in the next year, but fixing your positioning might get you there in a few months. How high are you doing these racks pulls? maybe go below the knee

Maybe I could do deadlifts twice a week, and then do trap bar deadlifts another time.

it's up to you

[/quote] I think I am going to start my workouts with transitional endings too. I feel like maybe adding transitions is better than just shocking your body right away, and maybe the russians were on to something there. I am gonna lower the weight slowly after each top set and big exercises.[/quote]

it's up to you

Also, I noticed something I do when I bench that makes me a better bencher sometimes. I didnt even realize thats what it is was until I read it in supertraining. When I am having a great bench groove, I always contract the antagonist (triceps) before I start the set, this prevents golgi tendon inhibition.[/quote]

Like when it is locked out?

Its possible that you could be right in this regard, but I dont think so.

deficit deadlifts as opposed to rack pulls, train the full range of motion. by the time you actually get to the top, because of the extra time under tension, the motor unit recruitment of the lockout is probably similar anyway.

I really think you underestimate how much stronger my top portion is than my lower portion.

This is about 1 1/2 inches below the knee


I have done 635 pretty easily.

Yea, I mean at the top before you desend, it works perfect

Admin wrote:Its possible that you could be right in this regard, but I dont think so.

deficit deadlifts as opposed to rack pulls, train the full range of motion. by the time you actually get to the top, because of the extra time under tension, the motor unit recruitment of the lockout is probably similar anyway.

I really think you underestimate how much stronger my top portion is than my lower portion.

This is about 1 1/2 inches below the knee


I have done 635 pretty easily.

Yea, I mean at the top before you desend, it works perfect

sooo you agree deficits are a good choice?

are you hitching/ramping that? I can't really tell. Obviously your rack pull will be higher than your comp deadlift though because fatigue hasn't set in